Sac City Freethinkers

Promoting free thought at City College


What others are saying about us:


God loving graffiti? Or did the devil make them do this?

God loving graffiti? Or did the devil make them do this?



  1. “God loving graffiti? Or did the devil make them do this?”

    My money’s on the devil.

    This picture and its accompanying caption brings up a whole plethora of issues I’ve got with this whole thing.

    Now, speaking as a Christian, I don’t approve of this defacing, but I cannot help but wonder how many of YOU atheists would be just as outraged if one of your own came and did the same thing to a poster promoting a Christian event.

    Probably not very many.

    Also, I need to bring up your mantle: “Freethinkers”?

    I really take offense to the fact you assume just because somebody believes in God that makes them incapable of any amount of independent thought or opinion.

    You proclaiming yourselves as “Freethinkers” just because you don’t believe in God, so by default you consign everybody else as an inarticulate rabble of retarded fools. This is the very epitome of arrogance and conceit.

    It’s really no different than the self-righteous Christians who believe they are superior to everybody else just because they’re “saved”. I’m not saying all Christians are like this, but some of them are. I’ll be the first to admit that fact because God knows I’ve wanted to sock more than a few of those bastards, but I digress.

    Much in the same way they condemn the non-believers as The Hellbound, worthy only of scorn and derision, you have done the same, only in reverse. By taking up the mantle of Freethinkers (for thou hath been “saved” from faith) you dismiss the rest of us as The Idiot Masses (the atheist equivalent of the Hellbound), worthy only of scorn and derision.

    And you wonder why some of us are acting out with such hostility? You cannot treat your dissenters with such brazen disrespect and contempt without getting SOME kind of reaction.

    It’s bad enough that peacefully disagreeing alone is enough to make an enemy (sad but true), but when you display such an air of superiority through your title and/or conduct you are simply ASKING for someone to lash out at you in someway.

    You hate it when WE Christians belittle you on the basis of your beliefs (or lack thereof), why should we like it when you do the same to us?

    Think about that.

    I’m out.

    Comment by shinobivega | October 9, 2009 | Reply

    • Shniobivega-

      Thanks for your comment regarding the torn sign photo and our club. We welcome and publish any comments, be they supportive or critical. I hope you’ll allow me the opportunity to reply.

      First, from the past discussions our club has had in general, and specific to the defaced sign, I feel confident in my belief that none of our active members would support the idea of defacing a Christian groups signage. Free speech is a cherished human right in our minds, as our very existence as a club depends on it. (Conversely, free speech is not generally as celebrated within organized religion, as if often leads to dissent.) If we found out a club member committed such an act, they would definitely be asked to leave. And by the way, this was not an isolated incident. I post club flyers on the wall outside my office door, and they are often torn down.

      Next, regarding our club name: Freethinkers.
      We did not invent this term. The Websters dictionary definition reads: “one who forms opionions on the basis of reason independently of authority; especially: one who doubts or denies religious dogma.”

      This term dates all the way back to the late 1600s, originating from the writings of secular philosophers and critics of the church. It has become an umbrella term to include atheists, agnostics and other skeptics.

      We chose it because we wanted to be inclusive of all types of non-religious people, not just committed atheists. The personal beliefs of our members include a wide-range of non-belief, and I suspect some are also not entirely decided on the existence of god, but are very sure of their mistrust of religion. Our club encourages this range of thought (again, running counter to many, if not most, religions and churches, who tend to promote a very specific, narrow set of thoughts, and discourage ).

      You might be surprised to know that our student members have had more than one lively internal debate over the meaning and intention of the name and the term. Many of them did in fact feel that it might be misunderstood or considered derisive. But after much discussion and consideration of the options and the title’s actual history, we decided to stick with it.

      In my opinion, the term is not meant to suggest that all religious believers are not “thinkers” or even “questioners”, but that their thoughts are generally limited by religious teachings and dogma. I personally know many people who are religious, including family members, who I consider to be very intellectual and thoughtful.

      Our goal as freethinkers is not to ridicule or condemn the faithful, but to treat them with the respect any and every human deserves. When we engage religious people in debate or discussion, or address the concept of belief, we simply try to raise questions in their minds or offer new information they have now been exposed to. We also try dispel the lies and misinformation, especially regarding science, history, and politics, that they have been fed through religion. All of this is done respectfully and rationally.

      I challenge you to find anything in on our web site (and possibly in any of the links) that could be impartially judged as “belittling” or “condemning” of believers or faith. Yes, we very openly question and critique religion and the existence of god, but we have not engaged in personal attacks on believers. And will not.

      If you, or other believers, consider the act of questioning as a personal attack on you or your intellect, then I dare say that’s your issue, not ours.

      On the other hand, it might be fair to say, in general, we do think we are right (or at least more right). But I certainly hope we don’t think we are superior. I think we are all human, all equal.

      You are sincerely invited to visit one of our meetings. The location occasionally changes, but the updated info is always available on the web site.


      Faculty advisor

      Comment by saccityfreethinkers | October 10, 2009 | Reply

      • Don-

        I understand that you obviously think you are right about the no God thing, otherwise you probably wouldn’t be so overt about it. But my question is why do you guys try to make people denounce their faith? I know you would say you just make them think about it, but really your goal is to make people not believe in God. I mean as a Christian I feel it is my duty to spread the good news of Christ and God. But I think that I am offering people somehting to believe in, some purpose, truth, and an eternal being that lves them and offered himself for them. What are you offering them? Why do you guys care if people are Christians if it isn’t being forced upon you? If they want to live under the rule of God and not just do anything and everything they please regardless of who it affects then why not let them? I just don’t understand the purpose for groups like this. I understand the meeting together of people with similar mindsets, but I just don’t understand why you would care if someone believed in God?
        Thank you for any response

        Comment by Danielle | March 22, 2010

      • Danielle-
        Thanks for you comments and questions. I would encourage you to attend our “Ask An Atheist” on 04.06.10 and ask some of those questions of our student panel. But I’ll take a quick shot at some answers while I’m here (although I am only speaking for myself here because the members of this club have many diverse opinions on the subject).
        There is a big difference between “making people denounce their faith” and encouraging them to “think about it.” Our goal is to provide people with an rational and reasonable option to church dogma and religious doctrine because so many people have just never been exposed to other ways of thinking. I appreciate all that religion has contributed to human history and culture, but I personally would like to see modern religion go the way of the thousands of ancient religions. I think humanity needs to grow up and realize all this belief in a magic, supernatural father figure in the sky is an archaic concept and all in our minds. I believe THAT is the TRUTH, and if humanity would finally realize that, we might stop killing each other over whose god is right and start treating each other as equals. We need to belief in each other, because we ARE real.
        Does that sound like an evil, negative message? I think it’s something very positive to believe in. It’s a humanist message of respect and trust. The ideas of god, christ, alla, muhammad, old testament, heaven, hell, etc, etc. … those things are what get in the way of true, human peace. You can say it’s all about love and good news, but as long as it’s about which god is the right path, there will always be hatred and war. Religion poisons our human potential. IMHO.

        Comment by saccityfreethinkers | March 22, 2010

    • actually if you believe in god thats sort of a mental illness and its silly, I don’t think people are necessarily incapbale of thinking for themselves but for the most part if your living your life based on a fairytale then yeah you’ve got major issues!

      Comment by Robin | April 15, 2010 | Reply

  2. I see where shinobivega’s argument is coming from, but re-reading the post, I felt that shinobivega’s position was mostly based on assumptions and were supported only by an emotional response.

    It sounds to me like the individual is strongly conflicted and took that energy to lash out against a group of people with different set of viewpoints rather than engaging in an honest discussion, where both parties have the opportunity grow intellectually, and perhaps spiritually as well.

    It’s sad to see conflicted people engage in such destructive behavior for short-term contentment, but hey, that’s just my opinion.

    Comment by Cliffy | November 20, 2009 | Reply

  3. I was once a devout Mormon, until these past three years, I started to witness
    a lot of snobbery from the members and a lot of malicious talks from the leaders of the church against other people with different beliefs.

    These recent shocking evidences from the church is enough for me to consider to come out of the Cabinet and say “I don’t believe in my religion anymore.”

    In other words. I would be more than happy to subscribe to this in my e-mail.

    Comment by Joseph Doyel | February 25, 2010 | Reply

  4. I agree, religion can poison this world. Christ died to save us from religion, strict rules, judging others. Following Jesus is not a religion, and people who love God get caught up in looking at others and judging and being hypocritical. This is wrong. I think people get hurt because they look at God’s people to represent God. The “religious.” But Jesus came to free us from ourselves. Sadly, humans will find any reason to kill and hate and judge and torment. We’re all sinners. You may scoff at this but it’s true. There are a lot of terrible things in this world that have nothing to do with religion, or whose God is the right one. It’s human nature. This life is fleeting, and this world would be corrupt with or without people who love God. But in the end, everyone will die and each soul will find its own way. I respect that this is an open forum for discussion about meaningful things of life.

    “All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To Those who knock it is opened.”
    –C.S. Lewis in The Great Divorce

    Comment by Student | October 25, 2011 | Reply

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